Category: Let's talk
The other day, I was telling somebody that I "watched a movie" and this personsaid, "No, you Heard the movie," and I had to choke back the urge to beat them with my cane. Other phrases/terms I can't stand:
She's a Total- as in being totally blind; sounds cold and institutional
Same with He's A Partial
Blindie- Sounds like something a 7-year-old came up with onthe playground
Stick, Blind Stick- It's a cane, not a stick, I mean you might as well go out in your backyard and hack off a limb from your favorite tree
Dots- Referring to Braille
Anyone else have any phrases or words that irk them?
What an idiot. I mean the person who tried to correct you. Stick is also very annoying, though I could understand it from someone uneducated, illiterate or someone whose native language wasn't English. Otherwise, there are plenty of references to canes in novels, film, on the net etc, for them to have least noticed them. That said, the stick people usually quit it once corrected. My mother, 99% of the time, uses regular words with me. She's always pushing me to be my best and didn't bring me up, in her words, as a blind person. But sometimes, she'll tell me to "feel around." "I put it on the table. So if you feel around you should find it." I hate that.
Has anyone ever had someone refer to their guide dog as a "blind dog"? Hello, if the dog was blind then I'd be in a world of trouble.
Yeah I had someone call my guide dog a blind dog too.
What's wrong with stick? I call mine my stick all the time ... and yeah, once when a biker ran over mine and broke it I did in fact break off a tree branch to walk home ...
I only get perturbed if someone tries to correct me if I say I saw something. Since I don't want a stranger correctin' me, I don't correct them ... novel idea
the most culturally thenthitive thing someone could probably say would be ... crippled eyeballs ... let's find us somethin' worthwhile to bitch about ...
lolol Crippled eyeballs! I love it.
whats wrong with Partial, blindy and stick? i mean, come on, most of us here use those terms in our daily conversation. me and my blind friends even go as far as "bloody blindies" to joke and address each other, or just make fun of ourselves. and Partial is something common refer to anyway. actually, when i think about it, most sighted people won't know what Partial blind or Partial sighted mean. we end up gotta explain it all over. it can be use words like decent low vision or bad low vision i suppose. but, seriously, who cares? for most sighted people, as long as you using the stick, "cane if you like", or a guidedog, "blinddog" most old sighted people will refer to, they will authomaticly clasify you as the "blind" group anyway.
the terms that people use on blindness doesn't bother me, however, the tone of how they express it bother me.
This topic is for discussion purposes, only. Not to bitch and complain, just to wonder and ponder and talk about the sayings that "people" use in reference to blindness. I never said "sighted people" I said "people." Oh, and by the way, if I were bitching, this would go in the "rant board."
I don't mind if people say dots in reference to braille. I'll just correct them. I haven't had too many people get politically correct with me when it comes to having a conversation about a movie or show I've seen. hate it when people call the cane a stick, and as for the dog? wow ... yeah, a blind dog. People are odd sometimes.
I remember one kid grabbing my cane as I was standing on the playground once in elementary school, and he or she said, "Give me that pole." lol I don't even remember how I reacted to that.
haha Oh yeah! I forgot about pole. I know someone who says that one too.
I don't like it when people refer to my cane as a stick either. I usually correct people, and after one or two corrections, they have the hang of it. I always say that sticks come off of trees, and canes are metal.
I don't think it makes much sense either when people say things like blind dog or blind school. That's rather stupid.
Not too many people have tried to correct me when discussing movies or TV shows, and when they have, I just told them that if they knew what I meant, don't you think I would know as well? Hello, I know I'm blind and can't literally see the movie, dimwit.
I don't really care when people ask or tell me to feel around to find something. Not too many people have done this either, but even when they do, I don't have a problem with it.
I usually just put down their intelligence if they continue after they've been told. To be fair, some canes are made of wood. *smile*
I remember my cane getting called a fishing pole once. I cracked up at that one. I couldn't believe it. And yes, it drives me crazy when it's called a stick. I do correct sighted people, other blind people I just kind of shake my head at. The terms blindy, blink, and so forth annoy the shit out of me, too. I will admit, I do use the terms total and partial. I know you think they sound cold, brandy, but when I use them, I'm doing it to define someone's approximate visual acuity. I can't say, they have 20/200 vision or whatever, cuz I usually wouldn't know. And I don't always feel like explaining, "They have partial vision, or total blindness," or whatever, so I shorten it up. I don't mean the terms as derogatory, or to make less of the person.
There are two terms that I got called that totally blew me away. One woman called me, "print impaired." Another time, a guy asked me if I was a Brailler, cuz I read Braille. Of course, all I could think of was the big Perkins Brailler. I told him no, then proceeded to ask him if he was a printer. He didn't initially get it, and looked at me like I was crazy, and I told him that I assumed he was a printer, since he read print. He got my point, and I think felt like the idiot he'd just made of himself. That one cracked me up, too. Sometimes they're so outlandish you just have to laugh.
It'd be interesting if somebody called my cane a stick, seeing as it's not even made out of wood. It's one of those California canes, which are made out of some material, I know it's not aluminum but better than that, plus it folds, and how many tree branches fold into a nice symetrical package? However, next time somebody tells me I mean listen when I say watch, I should tell them, "well, *I* know what I mean." No, probably not helpful and might risk setting all blind people on the planet back at least three thousand years, but hey ... Hahahahahaha!
Haha! Print impaired. That's amusing.
Those sayings in reference to blind people don't bother me, although I have no problems laughing at someone for using one of them. But it doesn't annoy me or anything.
Godzilla, I think California canes are made out of graphite.
Blind Dog, how ignorant can ya be? Lol. Yeah Alicia, you're right about the partial and total thing. One time this lady told me I was "sight impaired." I asked why she referred to me as that instead of just blind and she said she thought I would get offended if she called me blind. I think the sensitivity to terminology has something to do with upbringing. My adoptive mom was a teacher of the severely disabled and she would get upset if anyone referred to them as "retarded." Don't blame her there... But some terminologypeopeople come up with is just silly. Print impaired, Brailler... Lol...
people refer to me as sight impaired too...I like the b word "blind"...why is that hard for some people to understand? I'm not literally asking the question...I know it's cause of ignorance...just saying I wish they'd use the word blind. that's the term I use all the time, but even so, they still don't get it.
What is wrong with blindie? What should we use instead? Severely visually challenged, or differently visually abled, or dark friend?
Same with dots. I think dreading dots is way more descriptive than reading Braille. In most European languages Braille is called dot print, and it makes a lot of sense, that is what it is.
Stick/cane, I guess since English is not my first language I don't see the problem. A stick does make me want to put on Bushy eye browse and chang my name oto Gandalf, but apart from that I have no issues with it.
What bothers me is when people are so afraid of being politically incorrect they avoid talking to me or do so in such a careful manner I feel it is not a conversation at all, or if they get all stupidly interested and spend the whole conversation asking how I can do this or do that and what this is like, and then tell me of their mom's friend who was blind and so amazing because he put on his own underpants and even brushed his teeth with the minimum of assistance.
I like 'dark friend' ... now that's a good one ... lol
Brew I think people who have worked at agencies might be more sensitive to that stuff. I worked at a place with another blind guy who was just starting to use a cane. Also at the same place was a woman who had been at an agency and she got all put out when I told him "C'mon dammit draw your sword and let's go!" trying to make him easier cause we needed to jet and he was new to using the cane like I said. She was the one got all upset ... wonder if working at a blind agency can do that, where as the rest of us just ... go ...
I'll be the first to admit that I frequently refer to my cane jokingly as a blind stick or sometimes "the magic stick." As for the other terms. I rarely get that, even from complete strangers. I have occasionally had people on, say, Myspace, ask me how I use computers but they seemed to catch on pretty quickly. I've only occasionally had people slip up more than a few times. I remember in a speech class we were going to discuss the Johari Window and obviously one of the four frames is called the Blind Frame. My teacher was for the most part a reasonably sensible lady who didn't worry too much about getting me worked up about my blindness since let's face it I've been this way all my life and probably will be even if some miraculous procedure is ever developed that would enable me to see.. But we got to the Johari discussion and my teacher actually asked my permission before using hte term "Blind Frame." Uhm excuse me? What else are you going to call it, the Visually Impaired Frame? As for the other things, the getting corrected for using Saw instead of Heard, I've almost never had that happen to me.
I had a lady at the airport call my cane an assistive device. Guess she was trained not to call it a cane. I used to not like the word cane because I kept thinking of an elderly person hobbling around. I've had people ask me if it was ok to say, blind instead of the other Pc terms that seem to take longer to say. Some of those folks included relatives.
I personally hate political correctness. If I had to choose between a wrong word and a pc word, I'd choose the wrong word. I'm totally blind, a total if you like, so I can't call myelf visually-impaired. I have no vision to impair. lol
SisterDawn, yep, you're quite right. Decided to Google after my post and discovered that brand no longer exists, but other companies make graphite canes now. I dunno why I was thinking carbon fiber, either, so I didn't want to be too inaccurate.
Here's a thought, probably far-fetched, but try me. Do you think people avoid the word "blind" because they are afraid of blindness itself as a concept? I've heard of so many surveys and studies, and I wish I knew who all did them, where people were asked what they feared the most, and blindness seemed to be at the top of the list, even more than cancer or Aids, even though blindness itself is not deadly as those other two things are. I've heard it said that so-called politically correct language is invented for the comfort of the speaker, not the person who is spoken to. What do you think?
Eleni, I agree with you. I'm blind, simple as that, not all those other crazy terms we've talked about. PC anoys the hell out of me. I always tell people that questions about my blindness or how I do things don't annoy or offend me, but assumptions and political correctness do. LOL.
Yes, Godzilla, I think you hit the nail completely on the head. PC is invented for the comfort of society, rather than the people it claims to try and protect. I've had my share of black friends, and all of them have said they were not offended by being called black, and actually got more offended when they were called, "African American," or such PC terms. This may not be the case with everyone, of course. But I know society fear blindness: I've talked to enough people about it to believe those surveys and studies. It's so crazy, how they can fear that more than AIDS or cancer, but that does seem to be the way it is. Maybe because even things like AIDS or cancer are more familiar to them than blindness, and of course, very often terminal. Whereas blindness is a total unknown to most of society, and something they'd actually have to live with, and have no idea how they'd do it.
Wildebrew, you asked what do you say instead of blindy? How about just blind? That way we don't sound like we're talking about seven-year-olds, or talking like we're seven ourselves. *Smile* And, I also agree with you that it gets highly annoying when people spend hours being amazed at how we do things, and ahve to tell us about every blind person they've ever heard of, etc. I try to be patient with that kind of thing, in the hopes that if I can educate them, they'll eventually get past the blindness thing and start to get to know me as a person. And, if not me, then maybe the next time they see a blind person, I'll spare that one from having to do all the educating. I guess I'd rather people ask the questions than just assume things about us. And, they'll continue to be amazed about what they don't understand. Some will anyway, even after our explanations, but sometimes it makes sighted people see that we're human, and put on our underwear the same way they do.
I actually recall that in his memoir Erik Weihenmayer mentions that one of the teachers at the technology camp he attended was blind. And this guy once had a lady approach him who was so afraid to use the word blind that she asked him , "How long have you been a person of sightlessness?" A person of sightlessness? What the hell was that? I've actually had a few sighted folks who reacted to my using the word Blind almost as though I'd said a swearword. I've even occasionally heard of parents actually forbidding their own blind children to use the word.
I get mildly annoyed when people correct me on seeing a movie or watching Tv. but the one that really hits me is "visually challenged." I like the plain term "blind" although as many have said, people react if it's the most dreaded thing in the world. I often refer to myself among friends as a "blink" and get somewhat annoyed when people call my cane a stick. Also hate when people use terms like "sightless" because they're afraid of using the b word.
I like to refer to myself as de-lighted or optically precluded. This can sometimes go a long way to breaking the ice if a person is around someone who is obviously unsure how to act around a blind person.
I don't too much mind if someone corrects me for saying I watched or saw something, but it's when they express it in a serious tone or keep insisting on it like I'm supposed to appologize and fix some mistake I made by having used the wrong term. But usually my relatives will joke and say "see, she's not blind; she's just BS-ing us", or something like that, and I don't mind that and actually think it's funny too. I don't much like when my cane is called a stick either because to me the word "stick" sounds like an unimportant piece of wood or something. I do think it's funny though when people jokingly call it some sort of weapon like a sword or numchucks or if they tell me to hit someone with my stick, but I otherwise would rather it be called a cane. I haven't had any weird terms about my computer or anything else like that, although I was told my labeler looks like a Star Trekk thing, and when I'm using the computer my cousins joke that I'm talking with my boyfriend because of the (during those times) male voices of the screenreaders. Other times, people are just amazed or interested in general when I'm doing something, especially when it's with a piece of adaptive equipment, wich I don't mind if they're interested.
On kind of the same topic of blindness terms, I have a question. What do or would y'all call a Braille notetaker? When people ask about mine, I never know how to refer to it in easy terms. I tell them it's kind of like a laptop, but I'm not sure that that's really accurate because it doesn't have all of the same features a regular laptop would have, but I think of a PDA as a tiny thing like a cell phone or something, so I don't call it that either. But would it be like a PDA for the blind or something? I don't know. What do y'all call y'all's Braille notetakers and how do you briefly explain them to a curious sighted person?
when i was in high school, someone made the mistake of saying, "hey blindy!" to me, and my brother very nearly beat the crap outta him for saying it. i don't like being told that i can't see something, when it's quite obvious that i can't, and i have had someone ask me why i haven't gotten a blind dog yet. simple, because if i got a blind dog, it'd be no use to me, because we'd both be blind. lol! as for stick being used to describe my kane, it makes me want to put a broom head on the end and use it to sweep the floor, or turn into a witch and fly away on it. once, someone said "stick" to me and i said, "would you like this stick up your ass? it's a cane, not a stick". see, the way i see it, (not here it lol), is that all these terms and sayings are like using a different language, not to describe us, but to set us apart from sighted people, and i find that affencive if someone calls me a blindy, or trys to tell me that i meant something other than what i said. i'd rather they call me a blind person, if they have to call me something at all. i was always encarraged to just say "i saw" or whatever if i was talking about movies and things like that, and noone around me ever used the blind language around me, and they still don't.
one thing i have herd wich did amuse me though, and still does, was from my 7 year old niece. when people ask about me she says, "aunty Lizzy has dolly eyes". as you all should kno, dolls eyes don't work, they're just their.
I did see a study of around 1000 people where they ranked what would be the worst thing that could happen to them. I don't remember the result exactly but physical handicap or being wheelchair bound was the worst with 40% of people indicating it would be top of their list, blindness was number 2, somewhere in the 20 to 25% range, mental issues, oddly enough, were less than 1%. I don't think cancer was there but Aids was in the 4% range and becomind deaf was in the 10% range (which is weird, I think being deaf is much harder, at least from a social and every day life perspective, than blindness).
So there is something to that, society feels uncomfortable and afraid of blindness per se, not necessarily blind people, but it does make people uneasy around us in the beginning, I think.
But, conversely, I wonder if people's harsh reactions to being referred to as blind, or their canes called sticks, does not reflect equally discomfort or lack of self confidence in the blind community. I know a lot of blind people who have a very negative self image and lack self confidence. It's common everywhere of course, but I got the feeling blind people may suffer especially from this. And it is easy to imagine. It is easy to fail, say, in high school, because we have to understand technology to interact with the teacher and worry about the text books and how they are deliverred to us, in addition to the studying itself. It's easy to get isolated in a big group of sightees and not make friends easily and so on. Being blind is tough, there's no two ways about it.
My guess is those of us who feel we're doing ok, education and lifewise (may beusually slightly older i.e. over 25, people with jobs and/or family) may be a lot more relaxed about blindness, political correctness and general ignorance. This is just a theory of course, but I think it is built on some accurate observations.
Call your notetaker a mobile device, a PDA, say 'sort of like your palm pilot or whatever' if you want, not bein' politicaloly correct that's just technically accurate.
Both Braille Note and PAC Mate and my guess Braille Sense as well but not sure, use Windows Mobile flavored to one degree or another. The Icon anb Braille Plus use Linux for the core, but at least from what I saw of one helping a friend download some stuff, the interface looks Symbian - ish.
I just tell them it's a PDA all the same guts as their handheld and if they're modern they just move on ... your choice of course but that's a valid and logical explanation. And you and they can end up sharing files without them weirding out about 'How are you going to see the pdf' or whatever ...
People are used to, and will continue to get used to, electronics.
Good on you to those who have the ability to educate anyone ... I don't get upset if people ask how I do something, but I kinda suck giving explanations so I just give them something.
Like I said I often jokingly refer to my cane as the stick, blind stick or magic stick or even the Sightsaber, leftover from the days when a group of students in a Creative Enrichment summer camp at the Oregon School for the Blind used our canes as props in a Star Wars parody called Store Wars, which focused on the struggle between the Rebellion, which promoted freedom of soda choice and the Carbon Nation, which wanted to force the galaxy to drink only one soda, Coke I believe. Te CN's greatest foes were the Jedi Night Managers, armed with the aforementioned Sightsabers.
for me, well, in karate, we all break into the blind humor, like, my instructor will say, come here so you can see, then we'd both look and, i'd say, i can't, but, this is a group of people i've been training with for 11 years now, so, it's all in good fun...
same with family, it's all in good fun...
other people, well i've only heard braille refered to as dots, when someone was talking to a very small child, who was reading her name in braille...
aaah, yes, the stick... i always call it a stick... so i can't be miffed when someone does...
but what does urk me is when people stand there and stare at you and then say something when they thnk u can't hear them, but that is a topic for another day
I've lost count of the number of times I've had people raise their voices to me because they thought being blind meant I couldn't hear.
agree with Bru and Roboz. have someone ever thought that, we are the one who be over sensative when come to terms regarding blindness?
i'm okay with most terms, can't think of any that i'll be cross with it, it, only one thing that get to my nerve and i can't stand in any circumstances is, when a parents, particular mother tell their kids that, "look, that lady is blind, if you cry alot, or not listen to me, you'll become blind like her". that is the most anoying thing of all the blind terms and everything else.
i don't say that any term annoys me. there some that i'd rather not here but....
here's a new one i heard saturday. i was getting my hair cut and hthis dude called me handi-capable. Since he was an old guy and really trying to be thoughtful and kind I didn't take offense but it was a weird feeling.
sightless isanother one i don't like. of course i don't care for deceased, passed away, or gone home to be with the lord. when i do these things please tell people that i died.
visually challenged makes me growl. a boss of mine used to say it because she went to some class where they said they had to.
blink. i don't like that term at all. i don't know why but it makes me feel creepy. of course i don't like it when foolks in wheelchairscall themselves crips either.
something i used to laugh at my friend about, we're walking down the hall in highschool, and she said, well, you have vissual impairedness, i'm not sure why, but that just made me laugh, hard.
Ah, the lengths to which the sighted will go to avoid using the word blind. But I've never, and I mean never, heard a parent threaten their kid with going blind if they cry too much or don't do as they're told. That's...a new one.
I've had casheers treat me like I can't handle money or check cards on my own. If there's another person with me, they talk to them instead of me. Despite proving that I can, they still are not convinced. Luckly, that was only a few times.
Waiters and waitresses in restaurants often do that as well.
odd, i haven't had that problem in resturaunts, and with casheers, once or twice...
and, yes, some will do anything to avoid saying vissual impaired, but, the thing with my friend, she just talked with out thinking, she was on a bit of a sugar high.. so her mouth worked faster then her brain. but i knew what she meant, but vissual impairedness, again, just made me laugh...
Oh no, you got it wrong. They'll say things like "visually impairedness" to avoid saying Blind.
I wonder how people would answer if you asked them, "What do you think I would do if you offended me? What exactly are you so afraid will happen?"
Exactly. Maybe they think we'll make them go blind or something. It's been my experience that those folks who don't think of us as completely helpless tend to go in the extreme opposite direction, giving us superhuman senses if not also superhuman powers.
Blink and sightless are terms I most definitely don't like. I agree with Holly, blink does sound very creepy.
I've heard the term handicapable. My older sister uses it sometimes when referring to me or other blind or impaired people.
I dislike visually challenged. There is nothing challenging my vision, let's just stick with the fact that I don't have any-- I'm blind.
Now whoever threatens their child that they'll go blind or obtain any impairment under any circumstance is just downright wrong. First of all, no parent should frighten their child into behaving. Secondly, such threats may give the child the view that people with impairments or disabilities may be less than a person, and too, that may instill a fear in that child of all or blind individuals. Bad parent!
Often times, I've only heard sighted people say that blind people have super hearing. I just tell them that some of us may have better hearing because we rely on it more, and anything you use more, improves. I also tell them that other sighed people may have this super hearing, depending on how well they take care of their ears. Someone who listens to ungodly loud music will most definitely not have good hearing at all. But those who are careful not to listen to music close to their ears, or if they do, at a low volume, will have better hearing.
Another thing I don't like is how sighted people automatically think that being blind or deaf is a hideous thing and a person can't possibly be content with such an impairment. . I say this because some woman at the public library approached my mother and I wanting to pray for me at her church to have my eyes healed. I asked her not to and flat out told her that I don't want my vision back. I wish I could have seen the look on her face!
First of all, yeah, I do notice people can tend to see us in the extreme. We're either idiots or superheroes. Honestly, and maybe those of you into psychology can tell me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like a way for people to keep themselves emotionally separated from us. There seems to be a certain fear of getting too close or familiar or emotionally connected with blind people, so we are placed either above or below average folks so we are not seen as equals.
Handicapable? Ugh, the word is just too full of contrived cuteness to me, really. Somebody's idea of making a perceived negative into a positive, but it's like people are trying too hard. It's like saying "He's blind, not that there's anything wrong with that." Hahahaha!
HandiCapable? Wow, never heard that one before, but that one sucks! Definitely would be on my annoying terms list. Ugh.
I had an assistant principle who absolutely refused to use the word blind. He called me visually challenged during my entire high school career, no matter how often or fervently I told him it was all right to use the word blind, and even when I finally came out and told him that I preferred it, that he was offending me more by saying visually challenged. Him doing that even annoyed my teachers, which was funny.
I've never heard handy-capable either; that's a new one on me for sure. lol; wow. I don't like visually challenged, sight impaired, or sightless; those three get on my nerves. no matter how much I try and convince people using the word blind is what I prefer, they don't seem to get it. some people, anyway.
I think some of the stories I'm reading is proof of my point. Notice how, when you guys try and set people at ease about your blindness, and you tell them it is absolutely not an offense to refer to you as blind, they just keep on using their evasive ambiguous language. Either they're convinced horrible things will happen to them if they offend you, or maybe they just really don't listen to you or don't care what you prefer. Notice how this supposedly more sensitive language is full of syllables? Blind! A simple, blunt, single syllable. Visually challenged? At least five syllables total depending on how you choose to pronounce visually. It's like the old George Carlin bit about how when soldiers would come home, some might suffer from what was once called shell shock. Now shell shock is replaced by post-traumatic stress disorder. So the rule is, increase the syllable count and make the words sound ambiguous and clinical, and there's your instant sensitivity, and nobody will hack you up with a chain saw, even if they're blind as the proverbial bat, because you dared offend their oh-so-sensitive souls. Bloody hell!
Blink sounds creepy to me too. Almost like we're vulnerable baby mice. Baby mice are deaf, blind and hairless.
I can at least say I haven't had quite the same experiences as a lot of you. It would irritate me to no end if what I thought to be a sensible adult refused to use the word blind no matter how much I told them it would be ok.
Hmmm! i can relate to some of these terms too. Handicapable though. Blimey! That's a new one on me and I'm not sure I appreciate it, lol. Mum still, calls me "disabled" as oppose to Blind or Visually Impaired, which, I, hate. I'm visually impaired, because I hate the term blind, sounds so final, no returns kind of thing and you never know, with some of our conditions that caused our sight loss in the first place, there could well be a comeback due to various scientific breakthroughs in the next 10 years, for example, the the tooth implanted in the eye to help restore sight and the bionic eyes people talk about every so often, which are also in the early stages of development, not yet ready for someone like me to receive them, sadly. As for disabled, well, I'm not, it's just my eyes which don't function or, in the case of my right eye, don't exist (anophthalmea). Other than using a cane to get around because I can't see even a millimetre in front of me, doesn't mean I use any other walking or specialist daily living aids within reason, therefore, I don't and will never, see myself as disabled. I can't think of any other name or term for my long cane, so I just call it a cane, lol. Stuck or broken eyes. All 3 of my teenage cousins used to be fascinated by the fact my eyes were stuck or broken when they were their little half-brother's age. That kind of used to touch a slight nerve, not enough to light the blue touch paper so everyone had to retire immediately, but I wasn't happy that they saw me as broken because my eyes didn't work, they were stuck or broken acording to them. Thankfully, Robbie, now nearly 3, isn't bothered. I think he knows his much older big cousin is different, that I can't do some things everyone else can, that I have to physically feel what he's doing when he's playing and stuff rather than just look over to where he's absorbed in his game of cars, roads, building/construction sites, anything to do with transportation, which he loves to mess around with, lol. Bless him, he's never in his life, said my eyes were broken or stuck like his older half-brothers and half-sisters did on almost every occation they set eyes on me when they were Robbie's age.
Jen.
I tell little ones that my eyes are broken or that they don't work because that's allthe can understand. They could care less how it happened or why or the PC term. To kids you're fat, tall, blind, deaf, dumb, weird. They just say it like it is.
I agree with Brandy. I've told little kids that my eyes are broken, too, because that's all their logic can understand at that point. But they learn and understand more as they get older, like my nieces have.
And yes, that's the other beauty of children: they call it like they see it. I remember once a boy of about seven asked what my cane was for. His dad stuttered and stammered all over himself, trying to explain to the kid that, "I just didn't see very well," as he put it. The kid was like, "Oh, you mean she's blind." The dad was getting ready to come down on the kid for it, and I stopped him. I told the kid that he in fact had it exactly right, whereas his father was the one mistaken. I then told the father not to stop his son from using the terminology that made the most sense.
I neither like nor dislike the term handicapable; I just find it a tad comical.. I have never dealt with or heard anyone stutter or talk around the term blind, and thank God!
As for young children, I just tell them I'm totally blind, which means I can see nothing at all. And they understand it perfectly. They don't act like their older counterparts and ask if I can see that over there, or how many fingers they're holding up.
I'm currently working on my three-year-old nephew and two-year-old niece. They don't seem to understand that I have no vision, no matter how much it's reiterated by me or my sister. It will sink in eventually. It did for their older siblings.
I tend to laugh inwardly about people stuttering all over themselves in their desperate efforts to avoid using the word Blind. Come on folks, let's tell it like it is. No more of this Political Correctness bullshit, especially not about this. It's riddiculous enough as it is.
The watch thing urgs me. So does stick. And blind dog.....
Blink annoys me the most. I don't get that at all. It's just stupid. All the PC crap needs to go as well. I'm blind. I know I'm blind. Let's just call it like it is and save some unnecessary sylables in the process. Blind dog pisses me off too. If my dog is blind then I'm really screwed. I am also highly amused by "that dog helps her see." Really? I must have gotten a dud because I can't see any better yet. I think more than terminology though, I'm more put off by behavior. I hate the people who stand around gawking and talking about me like I can't hear them. I have lost count of the times I've been on an elevator and people are just talking about me like I don't exist. Assholes! And the parents who tell their kids "Hey, look at the doggie" can all bite my blind ass. Way to teach your kids to stare. My dog is not there for the amusement of your brat. Same goes for the jerks who tell their kid "Go pet the doggie!" Unbelievable. People are idiots.
Oh yeah, here's a random encounter I just had. I was at a football game last week when a chick walks up to me and asked to pet my dog. I explained to her why she couldn't then she says "Well, what's the dog for anyway?" I'm always surprised when people ask me this because it seems rather self explanatory, but whatever... I told her that I was blind and the dog is a guide. So the chick says "I knew it! Because why else would anyone wear sunglasses at night?" I was really torn between laughing and punching her in the face. I've said it before and I'll say it again. People suck.
People also correct me when I say I saw a movie. Once at the post office, some woman called my cane a poll. That didn't bother me but people sure are ignorant.
@TimeTravelingBunny: Have you thought of getting a sign to put on her that says something like, "Please don't pet me, I'm working."? Although I hate to say it, but what good would it do? As much sight as sightees have, they tend to overlook signs and warnings and anything that tells them what to do...Ugh!
yes, it really is ok to use the "b" word blind.
Mom actually used to turn it around on her fellow sighted people. When I was a baby and she was wheeling me around a store in my stroller, someone would inevidably ask "is she sleeping" and Mom would say "no, she's blind." They got so bent out of shape and their voices were so sad that she thought it would somehow affect me, even though I didn't understand what they were saying. So she started answering the sleeping question (and sometimes an outward blind one) with "no, she's unsighted". By the time they figured out what she meant, we were already out of the store.
I hardly ever use my Braille Lite or Braille Note these days, but if they're ever brought up, I basically say that they're computers for the blind. This is especially true of the Braille Note because of it's internet connectivity, media player, wordprocessor, calculator, calendar, alarm etc. The only real difference, in many cases, is that notetakers either have operating systems or put a shell ontop of a mainstream one.
That study sounds crazy. For me, the two worst things would be deafness or mental retardation. How they can think that being in a wheelchair or being blind is worse I'll never know. I'm not saying that those disabilities are joys to have but it seems that the others would naturally take precidence if one had to choose between them. You're totally right about us being isolated when in a crowd of sighted people and I think this is largely because we lack the ability for visual communication and recognition of others via eyesight. I don't understand the low self-esteem found in so many blind people but, like you, I've seen it alot.
I haven't had too many people raise their voice to me, but it still drives me crazy. I'm blind not deaf! I know that there are people who are both, but thankfully, I'm not one of them. So you Don't have to Talk! like! This!
Oh my Gods! You've actually heard a mother tell her child that he/she will become blind if he/she doesn't listen? That's monsterous! Someone should beat that woman senseless, scaring a poor innocent child like that! I also don't like the weird ways in which people describe death. Sure, there might be times when it might be appropriate, but most of the time, "he/she died" should be fine. And visually challenged is stupid and the same goes with handicapable. That last one, for some reason, bothers me more than the former. But Crip and blink don't bother me.
I've had people talk to whomever was with me and most of the time, it annoys my companion as much as it annoys me for the simple reason that he/she knows that I'm fully capable of answering for myself. So either I speak up or my companion beats me to it.
I've had the superhuman thing happen as well. I get "your hearing must be ten times what mine is right" and similar things. In truth, I do believe that our senses are more accute than those of sighted people because of the compensation affect, but not to the point of being ridiculous.
I'll never understand those who don't want to see but to each their own I guess. I also tell really young children that my eyes are broken and don't work, as was said, because they wouldn't understand anything else. It's simple and to the point, but some still don't get it. I've never found that telling a young child that I'm blind actually works and I've had several still try to get me to look at them or ask me if I see that right over there. One even drew me an extra large picture so that I could see it better. Sometimes, children can be truly heartwarming.
Good going SisterDawn! Perhaps, you changed the outlook of a father and his child when it comes to words, and, of course, you're absolutely right. People should call things and people what they are and stop beating around the bush. I too love the ease with which children speak. It's refreshing when compared to many adults whom I've encountered.
Time Traveling Bunny: It sounds like you have a huge chip on your shoulder. I'm not the world's biggest people lover but I know that when someone has obvious anger/hatred/frustration, it only makes things worse. I'm not saying you're a bad person or trying to criticise you. I'm only pointing out what I see. That said, people should know better than to pet a working dog, or any dog for that matter, without asking first. I'd try the "you know, he bites strangers who touch him" or "why are you touching my attack dog"? lol I think either one would make the sighties run off pretty quickly!
Sunshine and rain... I do have one of those signs. It's completely useless. The only reason it's still on her is because it's also a a handy zipper pouch thingy that is good for carrying stuff around. I'd say about 10-20 percent of people actually see the sign. Then there are the ones who see the sign and say "Oh, I know I'm not supposed to pet but I can't help it..." All most people see is a dog and they completely lose their cool like they've never seen a dog before. It's just part of having a dog. I pretty much ignore it, but I've been having a high percentage of annoying encounters over the past 2 weeks so I'm a little more cranky than usual.
I've stated in the past that people shout and talk slow like I'm mentally retarted. Can, you, hear, me?
You know with the dog thing, I don't think it's all about the guide or blind part.
My sister-in-law is now the handler for the mascott of the ski resort she works for: Heidi, the St. Bernard. Said dog is still a puppy, though a huge one at that, and she was at our house the other day. As part of her job, she has to take the dog everywhere with her, to the lodge, to photo shoots and stuff.
She gets all the same stuff you guys do: people asking what the dog's name is, or more likely in her case they know because of the publicity, but they talk to the dog before they even acknowledge her, even if she's the one there to get something for herself / the kids. There's something some people do which I just don't understand: their cognitive abilities and inhibitions switch off when they see a dog. I mean, the puppy's nice and all, we let her wander around the house though she mostly slept, but throwing oneself at a dog like a native doing a dance to the gods in a forest ... is just weird.
I'd never heard anyone describe this until you guys and now her. Feeding is the same thing: she isn't allowed to give it human food, has to watch it's weight and stuff, not like when we all were kids and you just throw the scraps to the dog. Anyway people want to feed it, wake it up when it's sleeping, all sorts of things, and every one thinks they are the exception, because apparently the higher functioning areas of their brain must just shut off like they blew a fuse somewhere just because they saw a dog.
People often let emotions run away with them. Son, wave good by to your better judgement, daddy's gonna take it for a while.
That makes me mad too. I can speak for myself.
Oh when someone asks "what does he want" I say what I want and they're shocked.
@Margorp: I'm gonna try that! A good friend of mine would find it particularly amusing if, in a restaurant, the waiter asks her, "What does SHE want?" and I say, "What I want."
My favorite one's I don't know, why don't you ask him?
Lol Sister Dawn, the brailler / printer thing made me crack up.
If you wanna talk about poles, I actually had a woman grab my cane once on a bus, thinking it was a pole. I hadn't bothered to fold it up, so had it sticking virtically up, not in anyone's way or anything, but apparently it was the same colour as the poles on the bus. Funniest thing ever, especially her reaction when she realized what she'd done.
As far as the actual phrases that annoy me, I don't really get pissed off by much. When someone corrects me after I say I saw something, or even corrects him/herself after saying something similar, it does annoy me, but I usually try to correct them. The stick thing also gets on my nerves (I often have people calling it a walking stick, even though it clearly isn't.)
As far as total and partial, I really don't care, and blindy and blink, it's all in the way you use them. I've used the phrase blind school hundreds of times, just because it's easier than saying school for the blind, and everyone in the blind community knows what I'm talking about at least. It's just what they're commonly called here.
I've never actually heard braille referred to as dots, however I have heard the slightly worse, and more amusing alternative, bumps.
Let's continue reading and see what else I come up with, shall we?
#18: I hate it when people assume I'll get offended if they say the word blind. Or assume I can't hear or intelligently communicate because I'm blind, but that's for another board topic so I won't even go there.
#20, last half of post: Totally agree with you, people get amazed at the stupidest of things and act like we're little breakable glass things that can't move an inch without shattering into a million tiny fragments. And I know people mean well, but has anyone gotten the immediate treatment of, Oh hey, you're blind! Have you read, (insert book name here), it's got a blind person in it! You'll like it!
#22: visually impaired frame? Just, lol.
#28: Parents forbidding blind children from saying blind? How screwed up is that. Seriously.
#34, that's cute, dolly eyes. I actually wouldn't object to something like that.
I've never actually heard a parent threaten a child with going blind, and I think if I did, I would have to unsuccessfully resist the urge to go educate them both, because that is absolute bullshit in my book. That's just feeding the belief that blindness is a terrible thing, and I hate it. I wouldn't even want to see the look on my mother's face if she ever heard something like that, she's almost more vocal about this than I am.
Oh, yeah. Has anyone ever stood at the counter of a store for two minutes while the clueless idiot on the other side just idly wonders what you're doing there? Um, hello? I'm a customer, just like anyone else. Can I be treated as such, please and thank you?
#59: I don't tell people my eyes are broken. I say I can't see with them, which usually involves me launching into an explanation of how I feel things, and if they're old / smart enough, how I accomplish certain tasks. Broken implies they need fixing. This does not.
Finally, #76: That's my favourite line too, though thankfully I haven't had occasion to use it a lot. That, and, pretending to glance around while saying, who on earth are you talking about?
Also, yelling back at the people who raise their voices at you makes for some extremely comical reactions.
I think I'm done now.
Oh, speaking of interesting terms, I was waiting for a Greyhound bus transfer one day, and some young guy took it upon himself to tell me he dated a girl once who was "that way." Again, we run into this fear people have of uttering the word blind. "That way" is so general and generic that it could apply to anything. OK, which way, tall, blonde, pregnant, bitchy, psycho, exactly which way did you mean, sir? Hahahahahaha!
lmao
I've had that happen where someone grabbed the cane because she thought it was the pole on the bus. That was sort of amusing but then I had a woman who rather rudely asked me to move out of the front seat of the bus because she claimed she needed it more than I did. Granted I'd have been willing if she'd been more polite but the bus driver really got on her since by law at least in the US folks with handicaps of whatever kind get first dibs on the front seats. This woman was just tired apparently and tried to make me move. Like I said the bus driver rather went off on her.
Heh. I've got one driver on our commuter shuttles who insists on telling the entire shuttle population how good I do with my "magic stick". Not so much *OFFENSIVE* ... as ... a bit grating after I've spent the last four or five hours in meetings, to say nothing of the fact that, frankly, I find praise for being able to successfully find the bus, board, and disembark from the same bus, down the same steps as I just went up five minutes ago, a bit ... well, a bit sad, really.
I once had some guy say to me, "I met a blind person once." I just shrugged and said, "That's nice."
To BryanP22: Good for that driver! I'm glad some people have good sense. To tallin32: Why do you let the shuttle driver get away with that kind of behaviour? Have you told him how annoying it is/asked him to please stop?
to tiffanitsa, sometimes it isn't worth asking someone to stop. it's often best to go with the flow as each situation happens, in my opinion.
Sometimes it is best to go with it.
Yeah, because no matter how many times you tell them it's no big deal they're going to continue to act like it is. And sometimes no matter how politely you tell them there's a risk of them suddenly turning on you like you were some ungreatful bastard. Admittedly I've never actually had that happen but I've observed it with other friends. Usually it's those people who just grab you and start trying to pull you along and they're the ones who are more likely to go off on you if you try to correct them because in their eyes you're ungreatful. No folks I'm not unappreciative of the fact that you're trying in your own way to help me but for the love of god ask me if I need help first? Then I'll show you the best way to actually be of assistance. If all I need is directions I don't want to be pulled along.
I hate being pulled... It happened to me yesterday, and I got snappy and bitchy.
I've had people grab me while I am trying to board a bus. If I'm a little too far to the left, then someone would like yank on my arm to move me the 3 feet to the right, as though my cane hitting the bus is the biggest catastrophe ever to hit the earth...
I npolitely say "Let go, please." If they don't, I yell! It makes them look really stupid.
Kate
Yeah. Whatever happened to dropping the politeness when the idiots simply don't get the point? So they turn on you. They're not worthy of you anyway, since they obviously on't respect you and refuse to listen to you.
lmao listen to you guys. Your being so hiprocritical. bitch or rant about certain words people use around you, or refer to you with. Then say you don't like how they tred so lightly around you. How the hell they ment to know what words each and every blind person likes or dislikes? They have to be careful as to not offend you. Oh then there offending you by doing so. they'd be better off to not talk to blindy's. oh gasps, yes i said blindies and have a stick, get `over it! lol!
ROFL Shea! Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
To Tiffanitsa: Because I honestly think the man doesn't know any better.
To BryanP22: Actually ... that sort of thing, or the shuttle droid telling their trainee that they "have to pull up to the yellow bumpy stuff so that he [refering to me] knows where he is" ... gets them reported to Real Estate and Facilities, where action is taken upon them swiftly and painfully.
@shea: Not sure which specific examples you were refering to, but it's not so much the words ... no, no, it is partially the words, but that's only because I find political correctness cumbersome and pointless—cumbersome because you've expanded a one-syllable term (:blind") to ... what ... twelve? Thirteen syllables? Something? And the fact remains that it's still assumed I can't cross a street independently when I'm more than a block from my apartment. Ergo, political correctness does about as much to change the general population's opinion as chewing bubble gum does to solve an algebra problem.
Per the incident on theMicrosoft corporate shuttle that sparked the last set of replies, again, my problem wasn't with his words. My problem was with the assumption on his part that getting on and off a bus was an astounding accomplishment for me, due to my lack of eyesight. I have a similar reaction to someone on the Microsoft campus doubling back and offering to do something other than email me—not because I expect them to know the ins and outs of how a screen reader works, more because I expect them to figure out that a software developer, regardless of visual accuity, probably has the email thing figured out.
Having said that, people that have problems with specific words (and I've seen them) cause more problems than they solve. I'd actually heard a story once of someone that went postal on a taxi driver because said driver asked her if she'd seen ... oh it was some random movie that wasn't iportant, but the poor driver person got roasted for OMG reminding this poor person of what she'd lost. I ... foundthis out when, in response to his hesitating before using the word "see" with me, I flat out asked him if he'd ever run into anyone that that offended, because I didn't figure such specimens actually existed on this planet. Wow, the things you learn if you investigate!
That's insane! She got treated normally and went crazy? Such people shouldn't go out ever. This is one of the extremely few times that I will agree that acting in this manner has a directly negative affect on how we as blind people are viewed by the rest of society. And what's wrong with a driver telling a trainee to pull up near the bumps so that a blind person can know the location? I think it's extremely helpful and curtious.
I have to agree with Sahy. I think its perfectly understandable for someone to call it a stick, that's what they think of. They think of stick or pole because they don't know the correct word for it, and its illogical to expect them to suddenly pull the correct word out of the air. If I didn't know it was called a cane, I wouldn't call it one, I'd call it a stick. You have to think of what you'd do in your position. That is why I don't get annoyed by words, they're just words. Its like those people that get offended if you say they have a guide dog, when they actually have a leader dog, how the hell are we supposed to know where you got your dog, and how much does it actually matter?
There is always a point to advocating for yourself. If someone continually praised me for something like that, I'd politely ask them to stop, if they became impolite, then I'd become impolite. You should belittle yourself just because your afraid one person is going to yell at you a little bit. I mean, its not very likely they're going to pull out a taser and drop you because you didn't want them to help, and if so , take one for the team and get them off the streets.
As I believe I've said before, the world sucks, and everyone, blind or not needs to get thicker skin. Not everyone is going to pick the right word that won't offend you. Like me, personally, I could not care less if the word I uses offends you. That does not mean that I use all words, I do not use the C word or the N word, but that is because I don't like them, not because I'm afraid of offending someone. The only way to not offend someone with words, is to never say another word as long as you live, and I'm not willing to make that sacrifice.
I have the right to free speech, nothing gives you the right to not be offended. If your offended, get over it.
@Eleni: I think my issue with the directive given to the trainee there isn't an issue with the directive itself, more with any sort of one size fits all model. Permit me another example. The same shuttle system attaches a three digit code to reservations to mean different things (for instance, a code 999 is a receptionist changing buildings, a code 888 is ... well, basically, it's Steve Ballmer, and a code 777 is a "special needs" shuttle). Let me add at this point that a code 777 does not imply a wheelchair user—there's a separate note you tack on to the reservation for that.
Now, I was noticing, after a fashion, that whenever I'd ask for a shuttle at my building's front desk, they coded it as a 777. Now, the one thing I do before I decide that any special help offered me is or isn't necessary is to ask what it entails, and why it would be offered me. Turns out the code is meaningless, just telling the driver that there is a passenger with a disability about to board (beyond that, they know nothing). So, as I don't particularly need any special assistance, but also as I can't pretend to speak for all blind people any more than I can speak for software developers, Microsoft employees, fathers, piano players or people that like pizza, I sort of ... encouraged ... people to ask before coding reservations thus. Similarly, I've seen the general practice of not letting the blind person off before they pull right up to the yellow bumps actually make me late for meetings, as shuttles have had to wait five or ten minutes for a truck, or another shuttle, or ... something ... to move the ten or twelve feet so that they could line up with the bumps when asking me if it was necessary or if I could get off ten feet from my building would have saved me ten minutes. I've also run into instances on our public transit system where a driver would let a sighted person off ten or twenty feet before a stop, then try to physically block me from getting off the bus at the same point, because it ostensibly "wasn't safe" (no real reason given other than "we're not right at the stop"). Worth a mention that this guy got reported and, funnily, I've not seen him since. So, to make a short story long, my problem isn't with them doing this—as much as assuming that any given accommodation is necessary in all situations, rather than asking.
Of course, asking what a customer needs as far as disability accommodations causes folks who expect telepathy and to never have to answer questions pertaining to disability to go up in flames, contact a supervisor and potentially cost someone their job, so ... you can't win, really.
Ok, I haven't read entirely through the thread thing so I figured I would put something here before I totally forget or something, lol. I do not see myself as "blind", I see myself as a normal person with a screwed up optic nerve. This does not make me, in any way, different socially, mentally, or otherwise (though I may be in ways and I blame Aspergers for that lol). In a situation with sighted people I will, 99 percent of the time, always be the first to make a slight against myself, or otherwise crack some sort of blind joke in order to put people at ease that even I feel perfectly comfortable poking fun at myself and wouldn't feel in the slightest offended when others do the same sort of thing. As for extremely narrow-minded people... I only deal with them when I have to; there are far more people that I can associate myself with that feel comfortable about being around me and can see past my fucked up eyes into my personality. I have little tollerence for politically correctness when it comes to this sort of thing, as many people are in some way afraid to call my condition the correct thing. For instance, my principal in high school always called me visually impaired and, when corrected by a para who helped with confusing math things, seemed to become upset with her and tell her off for even using the word "blind" to describe me. Though beliefs seem to be generally changing throughout society, I've still heard of blindness being viewed as something that is some sort of disease or affliction that one cannot get over. For instance, two years ago I had heard a rumor that a movie was being created portraying the blind as incompitent and forever needing assistance to accomplish rediculously easy tasks.
Having used a BrailleNote or Braille Lite since late second grade, I have no problem assimilating my notetaker to a laptop, as it seems to be the most direct and plausible description to accurately convey to the person what exactly "that computer thing" is. Believe it or not, I've found that younger people have an easier time understanding than adults, let alone an easier time learning about me and blindness in general. I do a tutor-mentor thing with kids between the ages of 8 and 10 as a part of a course for college and I must say I thoroughly enjoy discussing the topic when it comes up in classes/work sessions, as it is a part of me and a part of how I live. Just as they find it fascinating to learn the shtuff, I find it fascinating observing and watching (yes, I just used those words!) their fascination.
To tallin32: Now I understand what you mean and you're absolutely right. They should just ask what you want and be done with it. Absolutely no one should lose their job for simply having consideration like that. It beats assumptions every time. Those softies just have to get the hell over it.
Oh the words themselves don't bother me it is the behavior of some idiots.
Exactly. I heard a story, though I forget now where it occurred, about a blind man who was preparing for a trip by Greyhound. He got to the bus station all right and went to the ticket counter. Well the person behind said counter tried to offer him a discounted price. He refused, saying he'd prefer to pay full price. The ticket agent refused, insisting that the discounted price would be better. To make a long story short this blind man was actually arrested and thrown in jail for disturbing the peace just because he said he'd prefer to pay full price on a bus ticket. A worst case scenario and admittedly one that I would assume and certainly hope doesn't occur often. On a lighter note, getting back to the assuming thing, I heard another story about a blind man who went on a trip by plane. He had his trip and flew back home. He'd made sure that the proper personnel at the various airports he would be passing through knew he would need assistance from time to time. Well he got back home only to discover a woman waiting for him with a wheelchair. Fortunately rather than get offended he decided to make the best of it, thanking the woman profusely for bringing the chair and dumping his suitcase in it before attempting to wheel it down the corridor, all the while with the woman hurrying to catchh him exclaiming that "that's not what I meant! LOL.
lol that is funny. lol
LOL that airport story is hilarious! Thanks for the giggle.
Well, while I think the first man was ridiculous for not accepting the discount, arresting him for not doing so is totally insane! If someone wants to pay full price, then let them! The second story made me laugh. Good for him! lol
I disagree that he was crazy for not taking the discount. The only time I have ever accepted a discount was when my husband and I took a bus trip, and they gve him half-price as my guide. I don't take issue with that, but simply because you're blind, getting a discount? Really?
Hey, if they're willing to give me a discount, I see no reason to not accept it. It means I pay less!
Not taking advantage of a discount isn't riddiculous. Some people just would rather pay full price. The riddiculous part was that they actually threw this guy in jail for "disturbing the peace." Even if no law suit was filed I bet that particular bus station took a lot of flack for that and not just from the blind community. I just wish I could remember what ultimately happened. I heard this story while i was up at a training program held by the Idaho Commission for the Blind. I need hardly point out that when we were asked to discuss the article we were pretty muc unanimously of the opinion that it was riddiculous. What the hell's wrong with a blind person wanting to pay full price?
Well, if he wants to spend his money, that's his decision and shouldn't be challenged. I understand asking politely, maybe once or twice, if he's sure, but if he was that serious, they should've just let him pay the thing and leave. There is no excuse for what they did.
I don't agree with a big deal being made out of the fact he wanted to pay full price like the rest of the world...I'd take the same stance if I were in that position.
I'd offer to pay full price, but doubt I'd make much of the affair. The whole lot of us in line need to get somewhere, no doubt, and most of us are not traveling for leisure, but being sent on assignment / getting paid to do it ... so, priorities being what they are, I'd most like take what came and move along so as not to hog up the line.
I agree with lio. I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I'd at least advocate wanting to pay full price.
lol!